Praying.....

....Praying..... most Christians talk about it like going to the toilet...it is assumed that you do it...you just don't talk about it in polite society.

I spent some time today at a church prayer breakfast. As always there was a lot of breakfast. That is why I have put these pictures in; to brighten up this posting. There wasn't a full cooked English, but there was a lot of food......

I have been musing on a friend's blog posting of a day or so ago. I have worked with this friend before. I respect him immensely. He has taught me a lot about abandoning my English reserve (which I have not effectively put into practice!).

Check out his web site....a good illustration of what happens to a retired Boeing Exec who hits 60 & decides there must be more to Christian retirement than going to church and dying on the golf course http://efmdg.org/efmdg/

This is the blog posting:-

***WARNING: THE MAN IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT, ORDAINED SO READERS OF A NERVOUS DISPOSITION SHOULD SCROLL DOWN***

Answers to Prayer for What I Want

I struggle with prayer. In many ways it seems so pointless. I’ve seen more rationalization about prayer than any other spiritual topic.

The most fervent prayers seem to be for things we want. It can be for health, money, relief from suffering, preferred outcomes–you can fill in the blank. After the prayer comes an expectation of an answer in the near future. Sometimes the thing we pray for comes about, more often (in my experience) it doesn’t. Then comes the rationalization. God is saying “no” or God is saying “wait” or something similar to that. Sometimes we think that maybe the prayer didn’t go through and then we think about James’ statement that “the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” Maybe the problem is that I’m not righteous enough. Or again James says “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.” Maybe my motives were wrong. As Mordecai says “Who knows?” In the end, we really don’t know why the request was not fulfilled–that’s why we have to rationalize.

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus prays for God’s will to be done, the coming of the Kingdom on Earth, daily bread, forgiveness of sins (conditional on our forgiving others), avoidance of temptation, delivery from evil. Nothing there about good health, a promotion and raise, a new car, healing of others. The only time that I can think of when Jesus prayed for himself was in the Garden of Gethsemane and that request was refused. He accepted the answer and moved on albeit sorrowfully.

I tend to avoid praying for specific things or outcomes. There are several reasons for this:
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that God knows what we need and, as a loving Father, provides those things to us. Jesus also points out that God does not give harmful things (stones and snakes). As I look back over my life, I realize that a lot of things I prayed for were best left unanswered. I realize that in so many cases I was praying for rocks and snakes instead of bread and fish. This leaves me with a strong distrust of my ability to discern the difference.

If I pray that God’s will be done, then maybe I should leave it at that. What is my wisdom compared to God’s? If, as Jesus says, that God is a loving father, perhaps I should spend my time finding the benefits of the things that He sends my way–even if they are trials that build my perseverance. Perhaps the time I spend praying for what I want but don’t have would be better spent in giving thanks for what I do have.

There’s a lot more in the Bible on prayer. And there’s a lot more to prayer than asking for things. But praying for specific things and outcomes seems to me to be running into dangerous territory. I think I’ll stick to the Lord’s Prayer.

http://ericsblog.org/ericsblog/

Well it made me think.... a lot....

Then I scroll across to 'naked pastor' (see links)

You have to read this blog- it is an antidote to the 'God has touched me and my life is a state of perpetual bliss' (or 'why I listen to CCM music all the time'). Today's post http://nakedpastor.com/archives/2532#comments deals with existential crisis and actual crisis (note to those who wonder about random pictures- that is why I have the above picture). One of the comments to the posting says:-

In the end the only way through is to find meaning within the the world around you. For those of us who are believers, that means prayer, community and scripture. But the most important of these is healthy, compassionate community which is a precious commodity in our churches. Very few people in our individualistic society are capable of engaging in true community. I have learned too that there are some questions that have no answers and some pains and trials that simply must be endured. No explanations given, despite our pleas. But if you have the Holy Spirit and a friend/lover/dog to walk beside you, its amazing what the soul can endure.

Perhaps that is why the prayer breakfast I went to somehow 'works'- there is prayer, some of it with tears. But there is also food, banality, friendship and community. I can never fathom or give a reason to prayer, but if it is just personal and never corporate and divorced from a community that bleeds...is it ever really prayer?

(picture:http://www.vuni.net/b/dereliction.jpg)

Today.... for our troubled times (although when commentators write that about the developed west, I wonder if they have ever spent any time in Africa... )check out the wonderful http://davidkeen.blogspot.com/ and 'prayers around redundancy.'